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posted by [personal profile] purplecthulhu at 10:38am on 13/07/2007
I know there are a number of you out there with doctorates of one kind or another, and I'm wondering if you get the same twitch as me when someone calls you Mr (or Ms or Mrs or Miss) rather than Dr. I'm usually not one for titles, but when someone uses one I want it to be the right one.

I didn't work hard for that PhD for it just to be ignored!

* ask [livejournal.com profile] the_marquise_de if you want to know what this means...
Mood:: 'grumpy' grumpy
There are 78 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] swisstone.livejournal.com at 09:44am on 13/07/2007
It depends on the context, and my mood at the time ...
nwhyte: (electric sheep)
posted by [personal profile] nwhyte at 09:45am on 13/07/2007
I'm puzzled by LEAF! but I only use "Dr" to impress people who are impressed by academic credentials; perfectly content to be "Mr Whyte" until we are on first name terms.
 
posted by [identity profile] djw.livejournal.com at 09:52am on 13/07/2007
I can't speak for myself, but my father doesn't care whether he is titled Mr., Dr. or Prof.

All of them are 'equally' valid since is simultaneously a surgeon (by qualification), a doctor (by trade -- he's not a practising surgeon anymore) and a university professor.

WhenIf I get my PhD, I'll probably feel irritated if I'm not titled Dr. since I've done the work.
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ at 10:03am on 13/07/2007
Quite. Like you I worked hard for the doctorate. The worst offenders are medics, I find. There seems to be an idea that medical doctors (who, technically, don't hold doctor level degrees) have some special right to the title. Bah humbug.
 
posted by [identity profile] swisstone.livejournal.com at 10:07am on 13/07/2007
I do get annoyed when Francis Wheen goes off on one on The News Quiz about people using the title 'Doctor' when they're not medical professionals. There are a million and one reasons to despise John Reid, but that isn't one of them.
 
posted by [identity profile] makyo.livejournal.com at 11:41am on 13/07/2007
Dentists have started doing it too in recent years. If we're not careful the lawyers will get in on the act as well (as they sort of have in the US, when the LLB was replaced with the JD) and then the whole neighbourhood'll go downhill.
ext_16733: (inquisition)
posted by [identity profile] akicif.livejournal.com at 12:17pm on 13/07/2007
Can you tell us what LEAF means, please?

Thanks
 
posted by [identity profile] pmcray.livejournal.com at 10:14am on 13/07/2007
We now have our first PM with a PhD, but I can't say I sleep better for it.
(deleted comment)
 
posted by [identity profile] seph-hazard.livejournal.com at 10:15am on 13/07/2007
When my father's got his PhD he's not intending to use the title and would feel uncomfortable if someone did. In the unbelievably unlikely event that I ever acquired a doctorate, however, I'm sure I'd want to use the title.
 
posted by [identity profile] helen-keeble.livejournal.com at 10:20am on 13/07/2007
I don't have a doctorate, but if I did I'd insist on 'Dr.' all the time, just to get out of the stupid Mrs/Ms dilemma.

I get annoyed when people address letters to my husband and I as 'Mr & Mrs T Underwood'. I hate being referred to purely as the wife of my husband ('Mr & Mrs Underwood' is fine, though - at least it doesn't strip me of my own first name). I haven't trained his side of the family out of this habit of addressing envelopes yet, though. *sigh*

Thoug I bet that if I had a doctorate, they'd get confused and start addressing letters to 'Mr & Dr T Underwood' which would be infinitely more annoying. MY doctorate, damnit! :-)

(hmm. If both my husband and I had doctorates, would the correct address be 'Drs Underwood', 'Dr & Dr Underwood', or 'Dr & Dr T Underwood'?)
ext_16733: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] akicif.livejournal.com at 10:35am on 13/07/2007
Just for a second "Drs" looked like some horrid portmanteau of "Dr" and "Mrs".... but that way madness lies....
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 10:44am on 13/07/2007
There are aspects of this even more important to female PhDs, as you say. A will only insist on the title if asked:

'Is that Miss or Mrs?' - 'No, it's Doctor'

Mr and Dr used to cause problems at some hotels (yes, that's you I'm thinking of, Adelphi) since some staff couldn't cope with the idea of a female with a doctorate, and so these had to be gay couples... Hopefully that's changed!
ext_16733: (blue-toon)
posted by [identity profile] akicif.livejournal.com at 10:48am on 13/07/2007
My PhD's old enough to have past its sell-by date (1984), and I'm no longer working in that field. That said, however, I'm back in an academic environment, and the handle does come in vaguely useful from time to time.

The only time I use it away from work is when someone's being overly formal and calling me "Mr Glover" unnecessarily. At that point I say I prefer to go by "Steve", but if they must use a title then it's "Dr", thanks very much. This usually has the desired effect (and only once led to a query about persistend indigestion).
ext_8559: Cartoon me  (Default)
posted by [identity profile] the-magician.livejournal.com at 01:46pm on 13/07/2007
But it works very nicely when going back to restaurants where you used your credit card last time :-)
 
posted by [identity profile] bazzalisk.livejournal.com at 11:04am on 13/07/2007
I suspect that when (if?) I complete my PhD I'll do what most people seem to do -- use my forename wherever possible, but if a person does insist on using a title then I'll likely insist on Dr. rather than Mr.

This is, of course, excepting the first week or so after our vivas when I'm sure myself and the handful of other people I know likely to finish about the same time will almost certain take every single opportunity to call each other "Doctor", until the novelty wears off.

To be entirely fair Adam already insists on calling everyone "doctor" whether they have a doctorate or not, but he's been doing that for years.
 
posted by [identity profile] makyo.livejournal.com at 11:10am on 13/07/2007
I never felt comfortable being called 'Mr Jackson' - he was my dad, a very serious person with a proper job, whom important people would phone or write to.

These days, when filling in forms or in other official contexts I do always specify 'Dr'. In person, I usually don't correct people who call me 'Mr', except supercilious shop assistants (in which case the fact that I'm a customer should ideally be enough to guarantee the required lack of condescension and rudeness) - usually when talking to plumbers or decorators I say "please call me Nick".

I use Dr on my university email signature block when sending formal messages, eg "your paper is now ready for publication, please check the proofs and let us know if it's ok" or when writing a reference for one of my students (but in the former case it's mainly to stop American types calling me Professor).
kriste: Robots (Default)
posted by [personal profile] kriste at 09:15pm on 13/07/2007
Heh, do you work for a journal then? If so, which one?
 
posted by [identity profile] pocket-size-g.livejournal.com at 11:17am on 13/07/2007
My father is a Professor and my mother a Doctor, but I don't remember them being called that in any situation. Granted, I call them "mum" and "dad" and I am around them in informal situations, but I don't even remember it in formal letters etc.
I left Spain before all this mattered to me, but I've just emailed them enquiring whether it's their practice or somethign standard. I don't think people use their doctor title terribly often back home (I could be wrong), maybe it's a matter of culture and background.
 
posted by [identity profile] makyo.livejournal.com at 11:18am on 13/07/2007
A friend of mine, whose graduate studies overlapped with mine, and who is now a lecturer at Manchester, bought a house a couple of years back. During the early stages of this process he went along to see the usual range of estate agents, one of whom had just got details of an ideal property. He asked to arrange a viewing, so they called the vendors. He only heard one half of the conversation, which went something like:

"Hi, this is [estate agent]. We've got a Dr [name] here who'd like to have a look at your house."
"He teaches at the university."
"No, he's not a proper doctor."
"OK, thanks, I'll tell him."
(puts phone down)
"No, sorry, they're not interested."
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 01:24pm on 13/07/2007
I think some very stiff words with the estate agent's boss would be needed after this, and maybe blackballing at the university!
 
posted by [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com at 11:26am on 13/07/2007
One of the things I love about being in Europe (UK included, for those who are picky one way or t'other), is that I can use Dr more easily than in the States. Basically, if I'm in Germany, I always use it, even socially. Here and at home, if it's a social introduction, I'm fine to leave it out (unless it's an introduction to the children of colleagues, where we then end up with my feelings sometimes clashing with family rules of politeness -- where I live now, most of my colleagues insist on their minor children calling me "Miss ADM" or "Dr/Professor ADM"). Business-wise (banks, etc.), I don't use it, because it confuses people, but I do when I'm dealing with medical professionals, including the vet, because they can be annoying and because I've found that most of them speak to me as if I can understand them if they know I have a PhD.

Oh -- in the classroom? ALWAYS Dr (and not professor, although that's fairly normal for all faculty at my institution).

Gah. Sorry -- didn't mean to say so much. Clearly it occupies too much brain space!
 
posted by [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com at 11:29am on 13/07/2007
Oh, also? I hate being called Mrs. Really.
ext_8559: Cartoon me  (Default)
posted by [identity profile] the-magician.livejournal.com at 01:49pm on 13/07/2007
Me too :-) Though the only person/company that called me "Miss" I think was Barclaycard ... but I do seem to have a phantom wife as I occasionally get letters and "cold calls" for a "Mr and Mrs The Magician" (well, with real last name rather than LJ one!)
 
posted by [identity profile] malkavelli.livejournal.com at 03:08pm on 13/07/2007
Not replying to any one other poster specifically but WRT the MD vs DSc debate:-

The word "doctor" means to change something...? I know usually when used in such a fashion it's in a fairly negative light (doctoring the results for e.g.) but isn't thats why folks are referred to as "doctors"...because they change(d) stuff? In the case of MDs they change peoples humour/health and they "doctor" the practice of medicine in that they (hopefully) improve it. In the case of academics they have quite literally changed the way we think and view the universe through their research, inventions and/or discoveries.

Doctor just means "changer" in a sense. If any add weight to the word or consider some unworthy of it, is it not merely a sign of prejudices against or towards academia? (Do you ever catch yourself thinking "they gave you a doctorate for THAT?!?" when you hear the titles of some theses?)

Or am I mad?
 
posted by [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com at 03:32pm on 13/07/2007
No, it means to be learned in something or to be a teacher of something, from the Latin docere, to teach. The first doctors I can think of are those associated with theology -- Late Antique and Early Mediææal. The title of Doctor as we use it was first (I'm pretty sure) used in medieval universities, where it normally referred to theologians/philosophers, then later to other fields of study including Law. Doctors in medicine were nothing like today's doctors till ... I dunno ... maybe Paracelsus? Before that, medicine was a theoretical study.
 
posted by [identity profile] despotliz.livejournal.com at 03:32pm on 13/07/2007
I am vaguely planning to use Dr as my title when/if I get one, because I don't really like having my title reflect my marital status, and I just don't like the title Ms. I like the idea of a gender-neutral title, too.
muninnhuginn: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] muninnhuginn at 06:26pm on 13/07/2007
I agree with all you say (so when I finish the second first degree, I'll just have to soldier on for that gender neutral title).
ext_63737: Posing at Zeusaphone concert, 2008 (Default)
posted by [identity profile] beamjockey.livejournal.com at 06:43pm on 13/07/2007
Data points:

I don't have one.

Here at Fermilab, lots of people have one. It is rare for anyone here to address, or refer to, someone else as "Doctor" Soandso. (Exception: the tiny number of physicians here.)

My wife, a clinical psychologist, has one. She uses it all the time; at the office she answers the phone, "This is Doctor [Maidenname]." She deals not only with clients but also with attorneys, police chiefs, fire commissioners, etc., so maybe it enhances her status as a professional. Her staff refer to her as Doctor when speaking with outsiders, but use her first name when addressing her.

She does not insist that I address her as Doctor. Sometimes I do, anyway.

She will answer to "Doctor [Marriedname]" but she had built a professional reputation before I came along, and did not wish to switch names. She uses her married name socially.

We will be paying off a large student loan for years to come, for the privilege of calling her "Doctor."
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 07:48pm on 13/07/2007
Nobody at work, where PhDs are ten a penny and we have a lot of Professors too (NB in Europe, Professor is the more elevated title), uses titles or even surnames.

Except the occasional odd person. And undergraduates, who can be usefully intimated with qualifications. And the occasional administrator one wants to belittle...
 
posted by [identity profile] mireille21.livejournal.com at 03:25am on 14/07/2007
If (big if, having seen the stress so many of my friends have endured) I ever got one I would want to use it for certain. I always take care to address people by their proper titles also and never presume anything - just seems sensible to me. And partly it's the line of work, in banking it's very important to be sure you've got your facts straight.

I've been "Ms" ever since I left high school as I just didn't feel like a "miss" anymore. Surprising the number of people who were funny about that back then, but these days most people seem to recognise it by pronunciation and it's been years since I had to spell it out M-S, not M-I-S-S. Even if I got married now I'd been unlikely to change unless my husband had a really cool surname (I don't consider the one I've got to be my real family name so I'm not terribly attached to it.) I shudder every time someone calls me "Mrs B*" as that's my mother.

I'm not nearly so irked by the idea of honorary titles as I am by the relatively simple and stupid degrees that are now being offered in various places which enabled not very learned or hard working people to 'earn' a doctorate.

BTW, why are surgeons endowed with the title "Mister" once they have qualified? Seems to me they should have something more special after all those years of work.
 
posted by [identity profile] purpletigron.livejournal.com at 07:39am on 14/07/2007
I used to feel very odd when referred to as Dr C, as that's my father. It was as if I had to look around and check if he was peering over my shoulder. But I grew out of that :-)

Surgeons just see themselves as very special, so have to be treated that way. They're delicate flowers and have to be treated right or they get stroppy, and you don't want to be operated on by a stroppy person!

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