Kinda makes you Proud... [purplecthulhu]

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According to the BBC, the UK is amongst the most secular of nations, with fewer than half the population believing in god (I'm not sure how they get that number from the statistics in the article though).

This is based on extensive polling in 10 countries, but the comparisons between rich and poor, and between 'european' countries (apart from the UK, Russian and Israel were the only coutries polled that could be classified as such) and the US are quite stark. Without the US, it could be argued that poverty breeds belief in god. I wonder how the large disparities in wealth in the US affect this?

It would have been interesting to see what more EU countries are like on this. Is the UK more or less religious than France, Germany and the Netherlands, for example?

Read more here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3518375.stm

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There are 12 comments on this entry. (Reply.)

I have been told by various sources that the US has a lot of poverty - so there may in fact still be a statistical relationship between poverty and believing in God.

The US as a whole is rich, of course, but there wasn't many people surveyed. (I heard the figure 10000)

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Yes, that was sort of the point I was trying to make. Sorry for not being clear.

I wonder if the programme is going to have a breakdown of this by individual, as opposed to national, wealth?

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I think most Germans believe in God -- in fact, when addressing religious beliefs, people don't get asked "do you believe in God" but "are you Catholic or Lutheran" -- but most of them don't think that means they actually have to *do* anything. Your average German quietly pays their "church taxes" and then stays home from any services.

-J

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I never really understood the chirch tax thing. Does this mean that being atheist in Germany is financially beneficial? What happens to people who don't pay a church tax?

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I don't know any Germans who have done it, but I know it's possible to formally leave the church and stop paying church taxes. I don't know whether that means you have to pay the same amount to a different organization, though.

-J

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The taxes are pretty steep aren't they, so I'm amazed people don't opt out.

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I've always found that baffling, too. When I've asked people about it, they've mumbled something about the churches doing charitable things like soup kitchens and establishing church-run day care centres.

Me, even if I were religious, I'd opt out just on principle. But that's probably my American background talking.

-J

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You have to distinguish 'belief in g(h)od(ess)(e)(s)' from 'belief that there is something more' to really get to the heart of how 'secular', or 'non-religious' a country or person is, however. Not all religions involve a belief in supreme beings.

Off to Oxfam now!

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I strongly suspect that a large percentage of the people in Britain who said they believed in God meant something vague and wishy-washy and never actually do anything about it except possibly going to a carol service around Christmas and getting married and buried in church. I know lots of people like that.

In the film Les Invasions Barbares a priest claims that everyone in Montreal stopped going to church one day in 1968 and the churches emptied out in a few months. I don't know how true that is.

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Let alone those of the don't really believe but just happen to follow some superstitious beliefs persuasion (secular doesn't necessarily equal rational). I think I can justify my wariness about walking under ladders, but there's no sensible reason for me to doff my hat and say good morning to any lone magpie I encounter.

If I thought that secular meant rational I'd be happy. I've a feeling it just means woolly thinking.

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The sample of countries seems bizarre to me. If I wanted to make a point, I'd survey (say) First World countries (say USA, Japan, Germany, France, the UK, Canada and Italy - the G7 countries). These seem like a (relatively) similar group - all rich, all developed, all notionally allies. If it turns out that the USA is more religious or the UK is less religious than its "peers" (I'd bet money that the USA is, no idea about the UK) then we have a meaningful result.

But they seem to have just chosen 10 countries at random. Is there a meaningful relationship between the USA (richest country ever) and the Lebanon (basket case)?

Unless the program wants to make a strong statement about a-religiousness in the UK. This is easier if you choose the other countries in the survey to be (much!) more religious. But that's not a scientific way to do things.

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The survey was done for some kind of world TV event. I think they chose countries where there's a large World Service TV/radio audience, as well as obvious ones like the US and UK. I suspect this is why most of Europe was ignored.

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purplecthulhu

Kinda makes you Proud...

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December