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posted by [personal profile] purplecthulhu at 08:18pm on 07/04/2005
Some of you may be aware that I and [livejournal.com profile] purpletigron have severe doubts about the chip and PIN system being introduced at the moment by UK credit card companies. A while ago [livejournal.com profile] purpletigron contacted their credit card company and asked to be switched to chip-and-signature. After some discussion they allowed this to happen.

I use a different credit card company - Barclaycard. I've been happy with them for many years, but had been putting off contacting them about chip&PIN since I expected they wouldn't yield and I'd have to find a new card company. This week I finally stopped having excuses and got around to phoning them.

The first person I spoke to was just a normal customer services agent on the end of the phone. I had a reasonable discussion with him, and he admitted that some of my concerns were valid (eg. the poor design of many point of sale terminals that mean your number has to be typed in full view of other customers and/or the shop's security cameras). But after this conversation he said that it was Barclaycard policy to only allow chip&signature for those people with a medical disbility that meant they were unable to type or remember a PIN. I asked to be put in touch with his supervisor so that I could discuss this further and so I could talk to someone with the authority to do something about this. I also told him that if I was not allowed to move to chip&signature I'd have to close my account and move to a company, like [livejournal.com profile] purpletigron's that would allow this.

A few days passed, during which messages from a customer services supervisor were left on my phone, but I missed the call. At least they weren't ignoring me and hoping I'd go away.

Then they finally reached me. I had a long conversation about chip&PIN, security issues in general, Barclaycard policy in this area, and fraud prevention. It was a thoroughly civilised conversation with issues explored on both sides, and the underlying problem intellectually wrestled with. At the end of it the man from Barclaycard said he was glad to have a change from the usual calls about complaints. But he also said it was Barclaycard policy not to allow chip&signature in a case such as mine, and that his hands were tied.

I thanked him for taking the time, reiterated the fact that I'd close my account if I was not allowed to move to chip&signature, and asked for his superior to contact me so that the issue could be escalated to someone with authority to change things.

This morning, two days later, I get a call on my phone while I'm on the train. Its Barclaycard again. I say that I'm not able to have a long conversation at this point, but all the lady on the line wants to do is to tell me that, having reviewed the case, she is going to shift me to chip&signature. She was a 'customer relationship manager' and clearly had the authority to do something about this.

So success!

The key here seems to be polite, engaged in the process, but implacable in your requests and to be sure to keep reminding them that you'll take your business elsewhere. And always escalate it to their superiors.

All this was handled via phone, so I have nothing written to confirm this yet, but I am feeling rather pleased with myself. There may be future problems when, come January, there are changes in retailers' insurance arrangements for credit card fraud, but that will be very different from persuading the credit card company to see sense.

Mood:: 'accomplished' accomplished
There are 9 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] purpletigron.livejournal.com at 07:54pm on 07/04/2005
Bravo!
 
posted by [identity profile] beachhutman.livejournal.com at 10:21pm on 07/04/2005
A success, a real success.
I was in the Observer magazine last week on the subject. Until we can be sure no plasticnecking takes place, this is a deeply insecure system
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 07:38am on 08/04/2005
Was this as a journalist or as a letter?

The more people who know this kinf od thing is possible the better, since this is a security system designed for the card companies, not the users.
 
posted by [identity profile] alexmc.livejournal.com at 07:36am on 08/04/2005
I have already had my card rejected twice by a retailer for it being a "chip and signature" card (old style). This was my local curry house where I have been going for three years. *sigh*.
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 07:41am on 08/04/2005
Interesting - I'm not sure they're allowed to do that since the new rules about chip&signature haven't come in yet, and many people like yourself don't have the PIN cards yet. They are still covered by insurance for fradulent use with signature, so they really have no excuse.

I suspect you need to contact your card company and complain, and to discuss the matter with the owner of the currie house and make it clear that you're a regular customer who will take their business elsewhere.

Either that, or start paying by cheque or cash...
 
posted by [identity profile] caomhinmaca.livejournal.com at 08:08am on 08/04/2005
I am a little less hopeful - I agree with [livejournal.com profile] alexmc and I suspect this success will move the battle to the point-of -sale, beginning a long series of contests with various vendors 'sales procedures' and practices. I think the combination of retail-bunny obstinacy and retail-management working practices written by those with no interest in the facts of the legislation, and more interest in 'standardisation' - 'do it our way or trade elsewhere' may well be the approach. It may be VERY hard to prevail against, particularly as it will be a battle renewed time and again with every fresh shop/chain.
Not sure if there's a generic solution
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 09:23am on 08/04/2005
It partly depends on what is written in the 'retail-bunny's' script, and how it responds to my card...

The retail bunnies *can't* deny credit card service to those who have a disability reason for not using chip and PIN - that's covered in disability legislation. Its unclear to me whether the cards contain enough information to say whether I'm using chip&sig because I have an (invisible) disability, or because I'm just grumpy. We'll have to see how that goes.

Having said that, I sign at shops less and less, since I'm doing mroe purchasing over the net. If shops are awkward I'll just be less inclined to use them. Its their loss, and I will make this clear to managers.

Meanwhile, I am still using a normal signature card - they haven't sent me a PIN one yet, and this is something I've now headed off. I have never had any problems with this card. Alex' currie house seems to be an unusual special case at this stage.

Finally, if more people are bolshy, and retain signature cards, the retailers are going to have to take note, or they'll be losing large numbers of potential clients.
 
posted by [identity profile] sammywol.livejournal.com at 08:20am on 08/04/2005
Bravo on penetrating the bureaucracy!

Let us know what happens next. Like [personal profile] alexmc above I suspect things won't get really interesting until you try using the chip&sig. I'd stay out of department stores with long queues for a while.

At the risk of mentioning the war, did you use the carte bleu in France? I seem to remember that being gloriously unsecure at M's local Monoprix and nobody noticably giving a toss.
 
posted by [identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com at 09:25am on 08/04/2005
As I say above, I've still got a signature card and have had no problems with it, be it in department stores or elsewhere.

I did use the Carte Bleu, if rarely. The keypads that I used were a lot more secure than the ones I see in the UK, but I might just have been lucky with the places I was using.

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